What Expert Authority World™ is saying about the show:

  • Relavant for anyone!
    by HarloB from United States

    I really enjoy Mario and his shows. The Stress and Anger in the Workplace episode was great because it cut to the chase of all the issues around this topic. Great interview!

  • Mario nails it!
    by Mickiezada from United States

    I've listened to Mario for a long time...his podcast is well produced, his guests are influencers and authentic authority, and chock full of insights and inspiration for entrepreneurs. Love it!

  • Mario is the real deal
    by jamesnewcomb.io from United States

    I’ve known Mario personally and professionally for over a year now. He is genuinely interested in helping people succeed, and consistently over delivers in his interactions and valuable advice with fellow entrepreneurs, podcasters, what have you. In this era of showmen who “give value” only if they think they’ll get something in return, Mario stands out as a man among men. Listen to his show and learn what true leadership and value in the marketplace mean.

  • Listening On My Entrepreneurial Journey
    by FromLisa2 from United States

    I was surprised when I stumbled over the servant leadership that shows up in these episodes. It's collaborative. It's focused on relationships with clients versus transactions. I especially enjoyed the episode on getting clients without "selling" because it's more about genuine relationship building.

  • A Gift
    by Lisa Vogt from United States

    Mario uses all his talents, gifts and abilities to produce this life affirming show. It's incredible that we are able to grow our abilities and develop our talents and gifts just through subscribing and listening. Thank you Mario!

  • This show is ON FIRE!
    by tibor.mindsethorizon from United States

    Love your show Mario! Your niche is close to mine but I focus more on mindset and manifestation in a business setting. I tuned into episode #103 with Karen Brown which is dope! Keep up the great work!

  • Entrepreneur Must Listen
    by HWoodwriter from United States

    If you’re an entrepreneur this is a must listen show. So many inside tips and thought processes behind moving your business forward. Mario does a great job with the guests by asking the right questions at the right time. He and his guests give the information you need to grow your business and leadership skills.

  • What a show!!
    by CWLuecke from United States

    Man, do I love interviews with world-changers! Mario does an excellent job gathering the cream of the crop for his show and giving insightful interviews. Check it out!

  • Loved it!
    by Seodrigo from United States

    This interview was very enjoyable. Mario brought on a wise guest by the name of Michael Lauria. I loved the interview and Michael's perspective on the topic. He had wonderful insights and around min 31, he hit something very profound. Excited to share what I learned today with others. Way to go!

  • Great listen
    by trinity3712 from United States

    Good listen. Great range of guests and topics. Something here is you keep listening will help you in many areas of life and leadership b

  • Great Knowledge!
    by Jon Vroman FRD from United States

    Great show Mario! So much valuable information in one episode!

  • Excellent show, very imformative!
    by Shaolin Soprano from United States

    Mario loving the podcast bro, great content, immense value. Enjoying these interviews!!!

  • Helpful Information!
    by The Medicare Nation from United States

    Love the valuable information on these episodes! Lots of tips & tricks for every Entrepreneur to use. Kudos Mario! Diane Daniels Host of Medicare Nation

  • Love Mario’s Attitude
    by marisaimon from United States

    Mario’s heart shines through his interviews, making these fun and positive, and the people he brings on offer such a wealth of knowledge.

  • Lots of Great Info!
    by DarlajPowell from United States

    Mario provides lots of great info and advice in this 7 day a week show.

  • Great Content!
    by LanceJohnson_ from United States

    Mario does a great job of share valuable information that every entrepreneur could use and apply to their journey. Great work! 🙂

  • Important information!
    by Allmenow from United States

    Very engaging information. Mario draws out experiences and knowledge from his guests. Loved the show!

  • Difference-Maker
    by Unlimited Beliefs from United States

    Mario is a master at bringing out, shining a light on, and internalizing the difference-making mindset. His knowledge and experience and mission enable him to synthesize information into diamonds for all of us! What you want is accessible by taking in this show!

  • Excellent Information
    by Stallion golf from United States

    Great advice and information with a wonderful blend of topics! Loved the episode with the british healthcare professional and the ideas shared on how to make the industry better.

  • Motivating and valuable information
    by Calvin Javier from United States

    Great insight on mindset from business leaders and entrepreneurs making things happen. Definitely worth your attention. Will be listening and learning more!

  • Good information
    by FIRE NATION! from United States

    Engaging interview with a british health pro, I was surprised to hear the similarties and the application she has for making healthcare better

  • Greatness
    by MiaSportFanatic from United States

    Have had the chance to listen to one show so far but man, we should be paying for this information. Lots of greatness. Thanks for the heart to serve.

  • Listen to the experts - and thrive!
    by The Marketing Book Podcast from United States

    There's a lot of advice out there these days but, sadly, a lot (and I mean a LOT) of is from people with little to no expertise. That's not the case with this gem of a show. Listen to what the experts say and profit from the experience!

  • Show is amazing!
    by JohnnySwim32 from United States

    I love learning about mindset and how to master my thoughts. This show provide the tools!

  • Great show!
    by Jefferson_79 from United States

    Great information for all businesses.

  • Good value!
    by Audrey purplele from United States

    Great information that applies to any business! I really felt he provided value for my time.

  • Interesting Topic
    by Eric Oler from United States

    Interesting topic. Great interviews. Keep up the hard work!

  • Helpful Advice from Experts
    by ichuck2 from United States

    Mario talks to experts in a wide range of subject matters and asks good questions to pull out helpful advice.

  • What a great show!
    by Christopher List from United States

    Mario really brings out the best in his guests. The police dog trainer had such a great story. Can’t wait to hear more!

  • Great!!!
    by tommye w-c from United States

    Great podcast, awesome guests, incredible host!!!

  • Fun & informative
    by Saoirse Sky from United States

    Some people want something fun, others want something informative. This podcast gives you both!

  • Great show!
    by CJThomas6 from United States

    Very inspirational show! Appreciate the advice and thoughts shared by the host and his guests!

  • Great podcast
    by Rosie81200 from United States

    Great podcast! Love hearing about the guests’ journeys and what they learned from them.

  • Never Stop Learning!
    by Terri in Fairhope from United States

    Tune in to this great podcast and host! You're probably really good at what you do (top of your game...an Expert Authority), but there is always more to learn...streamline processes and gain more freedom in your life. It's not always about the bottom line. This one is worth a listen!

  • Amazing!
    by KatieBrooksIV from United States

    If you're looking for inspiration, tune in to listen to Mario and his top notch guests. I find that I am always much more motivated after listening to an episode of Expert Authority Effect!

  • Wonderful show!
    by @IV-Heather Tieben from United States

    Mario is a great host & puts on a wonderful show. The quality of his interview guests and entire production is impeccable, I couldn't recommend Expert Authority Effect more!

  • You Will Not Be Disappointed!
    by Composer 1853 from United States

    Mario does such a great job of engaging his guests from several different disciplines.

  • The hardest working man in Podcasting
    by EOFire.com from United States

    Mario brings the HEAT with real energy and FIRE...don't miss the meteoric rise of this show! ~ John Lee Dumas

  • Great interviews and guests!
    by Mel Good Karma from United States

    Thanks for hosting such great interview guests. Look forward to hearing more and kudos on so many a week and also videos!

  • Fantastic
    by Jason A. Duprat from United States

    Awesome podcast, going to be adding this one to my list. Interesting topics with great interviews, good sound quality.

  • Enjoying!
    by Slordan from United Kingdom

    Enjoy listening to Mario and how he opens up the conversations to ensure it’s as relevant to us as listeners!

  • Nice variety and interesting topics
    by emjgreen from United States

    Love the variety of topics presented here on this show. Looking forward to listening to more of Mario's show.

  • Super Mario
    by jamesnewcomb.io from United States

    Mario is the real deal and BRINGS IT to his own podcast and everywhere he interacts in the world. If honesty and vulnerability bother you, please move on to the next podcast.

  • Great Content! Great Interviews!
    by No BS Mompreneur from United States

    Wow! Really enjoy listening to all these fabulous expert authorities!! Lots of valuable take aways that I can implement into my life. I will continue to listen and share with others!! A+++

  • A great addition to build authority and create an impact
    by Cloris Kylie from United States

    A great addition to build authority and create an impact. Also, a different twist on the topic. Engaging. 5 stars!

  • Filled with motivation and ideas
    by Thomas O'Grady, PhD from United States

    Mario does a great job interviewing and pulling the stories behind people's stories or success. Good pleasant listen. If you are in a journey of your own, these episodes will give some things to bring into your on life.

  • spartancv
    by spartancv from United States

    Great job following your passion, your purpose and creating this podcast to help serve others! Keep up the excellent work.

  • This podcast is the bomb
    by Posturedoc from United States

    Mario always crushed it, and this podcast is another example of his amazing insights and knowledge!! Great work.

  • Wow - love the video show.
    by Thehighenergygirl from United States

    Thank you for the encouragement and tips on how to succeed on video and the repurposing idea.

  • Motivating and Inspiring!
    by KatyJoyWells from United States

    Mario brings such enthusiasm to his shows and his content is fantastic. I’m always learning new things to implement or new ways to grow, thanks Mario!

  • What a great show!
    by Gene_HPLN from United States

    Awesome podcast! Mario brings great topic, great guests, and it is very easy to listen to. I definitely recommend for anybody interested in business success!

  • It's great
    by Ian Ryan from United States

    Just had a chance to check out your most recent episode appreciate the great insight! Great delivery from the host & can’t wait to dig into future content.

  • Love it!
    by Brendan @ Entrepreneurs&Coffee from United States

    I love that this interview podcast doesn't feature the same old folks that everybody has on their show. Keep it up, Mario!

  • Amazing!!!!
    by Lindsey Russo from United States

    This show is so impactful! Hearing from the experts and how they take authority in their space is so amazing. Looking forward to more episodes!

  • Learned what I didin't even know I needed
    by Camilla-Jean from United States

    Great info. I love the Q episode because I get just quic interst snippets that may get me thinking about where my business might go.

  • Fabulous Interviews!
    by Life&RelationshipCoach from United States

    Mario does a fantastic job interviewing really interesting and successful business people who explain how they got to where they are - tips you won't want to miss when your trying to grow your business! Keep up the great work Mario! Coach Riana Milne

  • A+ Show
    by Gisele_Oliveira from United States

    I love this show. It's so entertaining and I learn a lot from the interviews. I highly recommend this show if you want to level up his game as an authority.

  • Inspiration, transformation, success stories!
    by Chabo101 from United States

    The title of this review should just be enough but it is just more than that. Its life lessons, its listening to personal struggles and how they over came those struggles. Love to hear from people that change the world through their struggle and the lessons that i learn from them are just more than amazing. I love this.

  • Great interviews!
    by AlyciaDarby.com PodcastManager from United States

    These interviews are well done and his guests are prepared to give really specific insights and stratagies... great podcast, Mario!!

  • Inspiring story of courage
    by StrongHeart<3 from United States

    I love that she found gratitude in her circumstances. lorie is an inspiration

  • Powerful!
    by The Food Heals Podcast from United States

    Mario's interviews cover a variety of topics and provide great value in all areas of your life! Episode 15 discusses how change is temporary and transformation is permanent which was really powerful for me. I love this message! Thank you!

  • Great content!
    by Blakeob85 from United States

    Great answers to common questions many entrepreneurs have! Thanks Mario for sharing your and your guests' insight!

  • Real Actionable Tactics!
    by MattBMaverick from United States

    What I like about Mario's podcast is that he pulls out actionable tactics from his guests that we, the listeners, can actually use. Great show!

  • Great Listen!
    by Real Estate Investor from United States

    Mario and his guests provide useful techniques to succeed in any business venture. The interview style promotes learning through real life examples of his guests. Great listen!

  • Great interviews!
    by Matt B 1818 from United States

    Love hearing these interviews and learning from people who are top in their industry. Mario is a great host and is not afraid to share his emotion!

  • Love it
    by Duffash from United States

    I love hearing interviews of successful business women and taking away what I can learn from their journey. Mario is a great host! I have enjoyed what I have learned so far. Congrats on the launch of your new podcast!

  • Strong, professional, enthusiastic!
    by pm legs from Canada

    If you're looking for an interviewer who's going to take you to investigative places to help you be your best you, through your professional life, you'll love listening to Mario!

Listen To The Episode

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Resources Mentioned

Business Book Checklist
Expert Authority Checklist

Books Mentioned

(C)lean Messaging: A framework to help startup founders talk to humans | Scott Brown

Hamlet William Shakespeare

People Mentioned

Jonathan Haidt

Paul Zak

3 Expert Authority Insights™ To Apply Now

  • If you get your messaging right, you will be remembered.
  • Customers want to know how your product is going to make their life better.
  • If you start talking about your customers and not talking about yourself, everyone will flock to you.
  • At the end of the day, it’s about human to human.

Sponsors

Business Book Checklist: Save five-plus hours for every prospect to generate more leads and find out all the reasons why every business needs a book, including your reasons. Download the Business Book Checklist at BusinessBookChecklist.com!

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

**Click the time stamp to jump directly to that point in the episode.**

[ [1:01] We thank our sponsor, Business Book Checklist

[1:37] Scott’s inspiration

  • Scott met a doctor at a dinner party
  • The doctor told Scott that he could help him sell a product
  • They sold the patent rights to a large pharmaceutical company
  • Scott has a passion of helping startup founders and innovators to figure out how to talk about their inventions

[3:24] Types of Canvas

  • Lean Startup Canvas
  • Value Prop Canvas
  • Clean Messaging Canvas

[3:24] Scott’s process

  • Build
  • Measure
  • Iterate
  • Figure out the what of your business
  • Figure out who you’re building it for
  • Figure out how to talk to real human beings

[5:00] Scott’s focus areas

  • Who’s your audience
  • What do they deeply care about
  • What is their deepest human need
  • What’s the most important thing about your business

[8:37] It’s no longer about you. It’s now about the person you’re talking to

[10:00] What does Clean Messaging do

  • Help somebody build a very short story about the life of a user after they started using your product
  • It’s a framework to go from intuition to judgment to the data to backup a decision
  • We start by focusing on the listener, not you
  • Clean Messaging works not just because you’re communicating well but because other people start to repeat it

[11:29] Scott’s transformational story

  • Rama was full of acronyms that people didn’t understand what he was talking about
  • Now, Rama speaks about how his technology can help his customers
  • His message is simple, clear, not hard to understand

[16:02] As humans, we need the data to confirm a decision

[19:33] Moon landing, is it real or not?

  • Absolutely real

[19:50] Who is one living entrepreneur you would love to have dinner with?

  • Founders of Zoom
  • Paul Zak

[21:23] Time out to thank our sponsor, Business Book Checklist

[21:38] Imperfect Action Round

  • The biggest problem prospects are making is they have no time thinking about how to talk to a potential customer
  • The fastest path to real cash is one key change of perspective
  • The best way to maximize customer lifetime value is talk to your customers

[23:08] Scott’s four canvas

  • One about the business
  • One about the biggest features
  • One about the most interesting features
  • One about the founder

[23:08] Scott’s process

  • Figure it out
  • Test it
  • Take it out to the real world
  • Use it with real human beings
  • Take feedback
  • Tweak and modify
  • Reflect on it
  • Tweak some more

[31:29] We take a moment to thank our sponsor, Business Book Checklist

[31:43] www.EAInterviews.com

Wheel of Whatever™

Episode Transcript

Click Here to Enjoy Reading the Full Episode Transcript

Intro [0:00]

EA Interviews Episode 112. Inspiration, transformation, success stories, and the Imperfect Action Round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview. 

Mario Fachini [0:13]

Have you ever wanted to get new prospects? Have you ever wanted to get new clients? Have you ever wanted to tell your kids, ” Hey, you can’t do that.” Or maybe they can. No matter who you’re speaking to personally or professionally, have you ever thought about what you’re communicating? What you’re saying? Maybe you have. Maybe you haven’t. But here’s the thing, everything we do is messaging. What I’m saying to you right now is a message. Is it effective? Is it useful? Do you care? I am super excited because I have Scott Brown here. And he’s going to be talking about clean messaging. As a former actor, speaker, trainer and author, he knows what he’s talking about. He started multiple companies and has been an investor in other companies. And I’m excited for him to share right after we thank our sponsor. 

SPONSOR Business Book Checklist [1:01]

Why every business needs a book including yours? Would you like to save five plus hours with every prospect, generate more leads, and profit in your business now? Visit BusinessBookChecklist.com and learn how you can implement this in your business today. 

Mario Fachini [1:16]

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Scott Brown. Scott, how are you doing today? 

Scott Brown [1:20]

Mario, great to see you. Thanks for having me on. 

Mario Fachini [1:23]

I am so excited for you to share because what you’re sharing is so powerful. Why don’t we jump into it. How did you get into? I know your background. I mean, you were telling me you used to do acting. How did you go from actor to clean messaging? 

Scott Brown [1:37]

Yeah. It’s a crazy story. You know, I was lucky enough as a young kid to get into the theater. That’s where all the girls were. So naturally, I gravitated there. And I went to drama school and I was able to act and teach and direct all over the world. And I was lucky enough in the early 90s to be invited to do Henry Five in beautiful Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And while I was there, I met this amazing doctor at a dinner party. And this guy had invented a new topical analgesic. This pain relieving gel that you rub on your skin and it helps with arthritis and things. Well, this guy was fascinating. And we got talking and drinking and talking and drinking. And by about [2:00] in the morning, he says, “Scott, I think you could help me sell this.” And I’m like, “Heck, yeah.” Well, sure enough, six months later, we sold the patent rights to a large pharmaceutical company. And here I am now 25 years later, an entrepreneur. 

Mario Fachini [2:36]

How have you been enjoying it so far? 

Scott Brown [2:39]

It’s amazing. I’ve been really lucky to build eight different companies, six wins, one catastrophic fail. One zombie that refuses to die. And my passion over the last ten years has really been about helping startup founders and innovators around the world figure out how to talk about these amazing inventions of theirs. 

Mario Fachini [3:01]

What do you find the biggest problem when someone has a great product and invention or anything? Because I know a lot of people that are great with the skill set but would you agree there’s a big difference in business from “I’m good at what I do” to “I need to sell this”? Because you said the key thing, he realized you could help him sell it. And you said six months later. 

Scott Brown [3:24]

Yeah. That’s right. We’ve actually done a disservice to entrepreneurs. We’ve given them amazing tools to help teach them what to build. Things like the Lean Startup Canvas. Super important. If you go through that process of build, measure, iterate, you’re going to figure out the what of your business. And then you’ve got things like a Value Prop Canvas. If you work through that system, you’ll figure out who you’re building it for. But now, as an entrepreneur, you take all of that great data and you go out and try to sell somebody with it. And people’s eyes glaze over. And so you lose that early customer and that early set of customers because you haven’t figured out how to talk to real human beings. And that’s what clean messaging is all about. It builds off of these frameworks that we already know how to use today and turns it into a way to talk to human beings that increases sales, increases media, and ultimately increases venture capital investment as well. 

Mario Fachini [4:26]

So you’re meaning to tell me that people would rather connect with people. They don’t get excited over numbers and stats? 

Scott Brown [4:33]

They don’t. People don’t remember numbers. They remember the way numbers make them feel. And that’s the amazing thing is that if you get your messaging right, you will be remembered. The trick is not to make the sale right now. The trick is to be remembered when the sale is on the line. 

Mario Fachini [4:54]

So take me through who you’re helping and how you’re really helping them. 

Scott Brown [5:00]

I focus primarily on startup founders, early employees of startup companies. However, we’ve seen this system apply to innovators and large enterprises. I even did a training session for a local government. And they’re using the same system now to help figure out how to talk to their constituents about their great ideas. And this system, Mario, is pretty easy. You do all the work to figure out the what to build and the who to build. And we take those inputs into a new type of canvas, what I call, the Clean Messaging Canvas. From there, we focus on who’s your audience and what do they deeply care about. And then what’s the most important thing about your business? Then we’re going to smash those two things together and find a way to very simply explain starting with the audience what you do. 

Mario Fachini [5:57]

So with most of your prospects, what would be a step one? If someone’s listening to this right now going, “You know what? I think -” they might not even know the word is copy. But if they’re thinking, “I got to change something.” And we know the copy might not be the best. Where do you generally start? What’s a step one that people can take action with? 

Scott Brown [6:17]

Step number one is easy, who’s your customer and what is their deepest human need? Not something simple like, “Oh, they want to buy some software to help get alerts when a server goes offline.” Nobody has a deep human need like that. But there must be something deep inside that potential buyer that they really care about. That VP of IT, when she is looking at software that will send an alert when a server goes offline, it’s not because she wants the alerts. It’s because she wants to go see her kid play baseball this weekend. And that’s what we need to find. That deep human need that we can tap into and then lead with that when we start talking about our business. 

Mario Fachini [7:02]

Aand it sounds like you can just do a random Google search and that’s going to give you all the answers you need, right? 

Scott Brown [7:08]

I don’t know about Google but I’m a big believer in pick up the phone and talk to those early customers and those early people that could be customers. And when you find out what it is they deeply care about, you’re onto something. 

Mario Fachini [7:21]

So other than the phone, what’s another good way for people to figure out what are their hot buttons? 

Scott Brown [7:27]

Well, I think people overthink this sometimes, Mario. It’s not necessarily about the challenges that people have in their business. These are deep human things. And so I have deep human needs just the same way that you do. And if we can tap into that, we can even imagine it, and then test it out. And so if I had a company that was selling the server alert software, I know that I would rather go see my kid play baseball then be attached to a pager or be attached to some email system that’s going to send me an alert if a system goes offline. And so I could try it. Next time I talked to a VP of IT, I might say, “Hey, you know, wouldn’t you rather go see a ball game? Would you rather go on holiday than be attached to that server farm?” 

Mario Fachini [8:18]

I know I’d rather be on the lake. 

Scott Brown [8:20]

Yeah, right. Yeah. My brother would rather be fishing. 

Mario Fachini [8:24]

So in all your experience with helping people across the board, what would you say – if I were to say, what are the top five reasons? I know you’ve seen patterns over the years. 

Scott Brown [8:37]

It’s amazing. It was those patterns that led me to write the book in the first place. I found myself saying the same thing over and over and over again. And so we tried to build this system to help people avoid those exact patterns. What I see, Mario, is the first thing is that building a company is hard. And when we go to our customer discovery, we asked people what it is they want and what they need. And they tell us all of this great data. It has to be SAS and AR, VR. It has to be running on Kubernetes on AWS cloud systems. So they give us all of this data. And that helps us figure out what to build. But the number one mistake people make, is as soon as they go talk to a customer, they say it’s a SAS platform that AR, VR, ML, machine learning, AI, on Kubernetes, with the AWS cloud back end. And people don’t care. They have to remember, as a startup founder, you have to remember as soon as you walk out the door, it’s no longer about you. It’s now about the person you’re talking to. What do they care about? They want to know how your product is going to make their life better. They don’t really care about all of those acronyms and technical bits and bots. They just want to know how you’re going to help. 

Mario Fachini [9:57]

Would you say this is why the iPod did so well? 

Scott Brown [10:00]

Of course, yeah. They were a master at this. They set up a vision of somebody’s future. People could imagine what their life would be like after they got that iPod or that iPhone. Apple is an expert at this. And we can be experts at it as well. It doesn’t have to be hard. We just have to imagine what somebody’s life is like after the fact. And one of the things we do in clean messaging is, we help somebody build a very short story about the life of a user after they started using your product. And the magical thing about the human brain is that whenever we hear a story, we imagine ourselves as the protagonist, as that lead character. Immediately our brain goes there. And so if you tell a story about Sally, who was a user of this system as the VP of IT for some startup in Ohio, people will immediately imagine themselves as Sally. And they’ll imagine their future using your product. And now its hassle. 

Mario Fachini [11:04]

What is the biggest transformation you’ve been able to give a company since you started this? 

Scott Brown [11:11]

There’s so many fun stories here. 

Mario Fachini [11:14]

I love this problem because almost everyone I asked that to always goes, “Oh man. Just one?” So if there’s two or three that – whatever is the easiest on the top of your mind, if it’s two or three, that’s totally cool too, because –

Scott Brown [11:29]

Let me warn you about my friend, Rama. So Rama is one of the smartest people I know. He’s a PhD, brilliant scientist. He studied biology in college. And then went and started a startup. His startup is all about helping field technicians. People who are on the road solving problems out there away from the home office. And for him, when he first started the company, he wanted to tell people all of the cool stuff. He has AR glasses and AI backend systems that parse all of this information in real time and tracks all this data into a CRM system. He was so full of acronyms that people had to slow him down to try to figure out what he was really talking about. And so I sat down with Rama. We spent maybe an hour together. And he told me everything about his company. And when we really started to boil it down, he knew that his buyer was somebody who managed these field technicians. Not the field technician themselves. And that that person was very concerned that the smartest people, the best field technicians were no longer in the field. They were now back in the office managing other field technicians. And so today, Rama goes out to the world and he says, “With my technology, we can help your field technicians be as smart as the smartest field tech you’ve ever had.” It’s simple. It’s clear. It’s not hard to understand. It’s language that will resonate with a 13 year old. But for Rama, he’s been able to turn that simple message into millions of dollars of orders. And his business is now taking off. This guy is crushing it. Everything’s up into the right with Rama these days. 

Mario Fachini [13:23]

Well, that’s excellent to hear not only for the millions of dollars for business. But also it sounds like you got him to change a habit. 

Scott Brown [13:34]

Yeah. Well, it’s what we do as humans, right? It’s so hard to build stuff that we want to tell people everything we’ve built. And we think that convincing somebody is about giving them all the data they need. There’s an amazing scientist, Jonathan Haidt, who did this research about how humans make decisions, especially decisions that are not actually in their self-interest. Have you ever had gone to a Thanksgiving dinner and you’ve got a crazy uncle who believes something. And so you try to convince them that they’re wrong. And you give them all the reasons why they’re wrong. But that has never worked in the history of the world. No crazy uncle has ever been swayed by the data. 

Mario Fachini [14:17]

I’m smiling because I’m sure someone, one of my nieces or nephews, is thinking I’m the crazy uncle. But I know exactly what you’re saying. 

Scott Brown [14:24]

Yeah. I might be that crazy uncle too. But we do it anyway. It’s our inclination to share with others all of the reasoning that we formed in our brain. That’s informed our judgment and decision making. But humans make decisions first from an intuitive place .Then we create a judgment. And then we find the words to describe it. But yet when we try to sell something or when we try to pitch a venture capitalist, we go the other direction. We give people data hoping they’ll make a judgment. And then into it the reason why. And so if we switch it and go the other way, magic happens. That’s what clean messaging helps you do. It’s a framework to go from intuition to judgment to the data to backup a decision. 

Mario Fachini [15:13]

So it sounds like you’re bridging the gap in the way people are thinking but also give them the information they need. And presenting it in a way where they actually want to listen to it. Because part of what you’re saying is also very akin to let’s take a high school or going into college and the parents are going, “You need to go here because of this. You need to go here. This is what you should be doing. This is what you should be doing.” And I’ll never forget just saying to some of my friend’s parents, I was like, “Have you ever asked them what they want?”Instead of telling them what they should do? And it’s the same thing. As you know, what I’m hearing is listen to what your audience says, know your audience, don’t just spew out all kinds of data information or logical reasoning. 

Scott Brown [16:02]

That’s right. As humans, we need the data to confirm a decision. But the decision happens first. And so what we want to do in sales or in pitching your new startup is, we want to move somebody’s intuition. And then help them form a judgment about you and your business idea. And then give them enough data in real time to help them have the words to describe why they believe in you. And so that’s the key. In clean messaging, we start by focusing on the listener, not you. And then we give you just enough data about how you solve this big problem that a listener or a potential customer may have. And then you use a story, some analogies around numbers that can resonate with people. And maybe a couple of little sound bites that you want to drop into people’s brain so that they can repeat it to their friends. And that’s how it becomes magical. Clean messaging works not just because you’re communicating well but because other people start to repeat it. And when that happens, your business can’t be stopped. 

Mario Fachini [17:12]

So talk to me about the book. Because earlier you alluded to this is why you wrote the book. 

Scott Brown [17:17]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I wrote this book, Clean Messaging. It’s available on Amazon.com or anywhere else that you get your books. It is really the platform and the framework that’s going to teach you how to do this. I spent ten years helping startup founders figure this stuff out. And now you can do it through this Clean Messaging book. 

Mario Fachini [17:41]

I will make sure that there is a link in the show notes on EAInterviews.com. Because I love it. And I want this in more people’s hands because there are so many people out there. I always use the example in my talks, they’re going, “I’m a roofer, I can help you fix your roof. I’m a whatever place, I can help you fix.” Like a dentist go, ” I can help you fix your teeth.” It’s like, “I’d hope so that’s what you do. This is your profession.” But what information are you telling me beyond that to facilitate the buying decision? 

Scott Brown [18:14]

That’s right. That’s exactly right. Just because you can fix the roof isn’t a reason why I’m going to buy. And so you’ve got to – you can actually influence the buying decision before you tell them you’re a roofer. For people who like a roof over the head, “I do X.” Or for people who would rather not sleep in the rain, “I do Y.” There was always a way, a deep human need that your audience, your potential customer has. And then you pair that to that magical thing that you do. That thing you’ve invented or the business or service you provide. Well, Mario, I was going to say I did put together that little framework that anyone can download. And you’re welcome to link to that as well. I will make it free for anybody on this podcast or anybody who’s listening at all to just go to my website and then we’ll provide a link that you can download later. 

Mario Fachini [19:10]

I will make sure that is on there as well. So I’m going to ask you a fun question now before we go to the Imperfect Action Round. Are you are you in the mood for a softball or hardball?

Scott Brown [19:23]

Bring it on man. Give me a fastball. 

Mario Fachini [19:33]

Who – no. That’s a medium one. All right. Moon landing, is it real or not? 

Scott Brown [19:40]

Well, it’s absolutely real. I mean, that’s a softball question. How could you debate that, right? There are pictures. There are people. There are people who’ve been there. 

Mario Fachini [19:50]

Okay. Maybe it is a softball one. Maybe it’s more hardball on the controversial list. That’s what I was talking about on it. But one I was going to ask you and I really do want to know, who is one living entrepreneur you would love to have dinner with? Who just fascinates you right now that’s still alive that we can still make happen? 

Scott Brown [20:16]

There are a lot. The founders of Zoom, I think, are really great. And I’d love to sit down with them. I love their product. I think they’re doing it well. I think that the slack guys would be really interesting to talk to them a little bit. When you think about the very early stage, there is a guy named Paul Zak, that I’m secretly stalking. And I love to talk – 

Mario Fachini [20:43]

I call it intelligence gathering because that means it’s allowed and legal. 

Scott Brown [20:48]

Well, they did ask me to get out of his tree. But you might be right. Paul Zak is this amazing entrepreneur who’s got a company called Immersion Neuroscience. And he’s figured out a way to help create compelling content. And I think he’s doing some of the same thing I’m doing for entrepreneurs but for large content creators. And he’s a guy I really want to talk to someday. 

Mario Fachini [21:15]

Excellent. Well, I appreciate you for sharing that with us. All right. We’re going to go to the Imperfect Action Round right after we thank our sponsor.

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Mario Fachini [21:38]

All right. And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Scott, are you ready to take imperfect action? 

Scott Brown [21:43]

Bring it on. 

Mario Fachini [21:45]

All right. Number one, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way they can fix it? 

Scott Brown [21:55]

The challenge I would have for people in that situation is I ask this question, what would happen to your life if your messaging was as clean as your code? That’s the key. We spent so much time as founders and entrepreneurs polishing the rock, making sure the product is great, and no time thinking about how we’re going to talk to mom or potential customer about this amazing thing we’ve invented. If you change that little habit, good things can come. 

Mario Fachini [22:28]

Let’s talk about the timing of that in like a ratio. So if there’s 160 hours a week, 24 hours in a day, and I believe with what I teach people with my Block 15 time, you got 96 opportunities a day even if you took 15 minutes. What do you think is a real reasonable expectation if someone is listening to this right now and they go, “I want to go through this. I want to go through your – I want to be where I’m at now and by the end of the week -” would it take two weeks? How much time would you say someone needs to and should be serious to prioritize the dedication to go, “I’m going to do a little bit each day and get there.” 

Scott Brown [23:08]

For a brand new company, for a startup for example, I would tell them that they need to have four clean messages, four canvases. One that’s about the business, one about the two biggest, most interesting features, and then one about the founder. So that’s four. I found that with a little bit of coaching, I can help somebody get through that process an hour a piece. Now, for somebody tackling it for the first time, that very first clean messaging canvas might take, you know, a good strong morning. But once you get it down and once you start to figure out the system, you can do this pretty fast. And then it’s just about testing it. Take it out to the real world. Use it with people out there with real human beings. Take that feedback, tweak it, modify it, spend maybe 30 minutes a week reflecting on it. Take it out every time you’re about to do an interview with the media or going into a big picture that. Read through it, does it still resonate? Do these messages still hold? And then tweak it when you find time. 

Mario Fachini [24:16]

So you’re telling me that even if someone right now has no clue what copy, has never done any of this, in five to ten hours, initially, maybe even over a month, they could knock all this out. And that’s really conservatively. I know it would only take a week or two. But moving forward, maybe touch at once a quarter? 

Scott Brown [24:37]

Yeah. Yeah. That’s what we find now. My friend Rama I was telling you about, he looks at it maybe once a month and he just dips into it. Whenever he does an interview with the media or the press, he pulls out his clean messaging canvas, reflects on it, maybe he tweaks a few things, and then goes right into the interview. And so it’s just become part of his habits. 

Mario Fachini [24:58]

So I’m always thinking about marketing and how to get companies more attention and profit. What do you think of this? If you put it into your social media so not only you’re seeing it more, but everyone else gets to see it more also? 

Scott Brown [25:10]

Absolutely. That’s a great way to test it. And what we find is that people who put their clean messages, the bio on Twitter or they tweet out a couple of the earworms that we talked about in the clean messaging framework, that stuff resonates. When people start to retweet it and like it, that’s how you know you’ve hit on a real human need and a real answer to a problem. 

Mario Fachini [25:32]

Excellent. What is the fastest path to the cash? 

Scott Brown [25:42]

I would say the fastest path to real cash is one key change of perspective. If you focus on your user instead of yourself. Focus on the listener and not you doing the talking. When you do that, magic happens. That’s when the cash starts to flow. People don’t want to hear you talk about your company. They want to hear about how your company is going to help them. If you make that one little change in all of your marketing copy in the radio interviews you do, in the blog posts you put out, if you start talking about your customers and not talking about yourself, everyone will flock to you. 

Mario Fachini [26:26]

That is a great tip. I’m going to make sure that gets marked as an Expert Authority Insight. That is phenomenal. And I agree 1,000%. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value? 

Scott Brown [26:44]

Oh. Well, this may sound pedantic but talk to your customers. I think you know -what we find is that, especially for early stage entrepreneurs, they’re a little afraid to talk to humans. But if you pick up the phone, if you call people, if you talk to a customer, talk to a new customer once a day, once a week, once a month, whatever you’re most comfortable with, push yourself. But get out there and talk to people. That talking to people will make them a customer for life. It’s that ten year plan for a customer. It’s not transactional anymore. It’s about how are you helping them change their future. And when you start to engage in those conversations, then customer lifetime value takes care of itself. 

Mario Fachini [27:32]

Have you ever gone on to sites like Amazon or YouTube and read their comments to see what they’re thinking or basically anywhere on the web to see what’s really in their thoughts? 

Scott Brown [27:43]

Sure. Yeah. There’s great ways to go dig into that, where you can find out what people think about you either through comments online, what they think about a potential product, or a competitor’s product. That’s all really great data. But that’s a learning. But it doesn’t actually create a customer relationship. It gives you more ammunition on what to build. But it doesn’t really help you build a customer for life. Because somebody else is going to come along with a feature that you don’t have or that you didn’t read about or that they discovered just by talking to somebody. And so get out of the office, go talk to somebody, pick up the phone and talk to your early customers, and plan to do that often. And that is going to create real long term value. 

Mario Fachini [28:29]

I love that you focus on this so much. Because even after thousands of years and all this technology and everything, business still comes down to people. 

Scott Brown [28:37]

That’s so true. I’ve got friends of mine and entrepreneurs I’ve helped and they tell me, “Well, we sell the banks. We sell FinTech to large investment banks.” I’m like, “No, you don’t.” No bank has ever bought anything. But there is a human being who works at a bank that you probably sell to. And so we have to remember that between all of this stuff, between all of the tech and the wizardry, the magic that we create, at the end of the day, it’s about human to human, not b2b or b2c. It’s about humans. 

Mario Fachini [29:15]

I love that. And speaking of Amazon and looking at reviews and everything you had mentioned your book, is Amazon the best place people can get it? 

Scott Brown [29:26]

Amazon is the best place to get it. And I encourage you to write a review. 

Mario Fachini [29:31]

Excellent. Also, what is a book you would recommend to Expert Authority World that’s made a big difference in your life? 

Scott Brown [29:40]

Yeah. There’s two that I talked about right now. Number one is everybody should go back and read Hamlet again. Shakespeare is amazing. Everything you need to know about life is actually already written down in Hamlet. Aside from that, the book that everyone should go out and buy right now is by a guy named Jerry Colonna, a book that’s called Reboot. And Jerry is a former venture capitalist turned CEO whisperer. And Jerry has the most amazing stories. And a way to help all of us, as founders and CEOs, get to our authentic self with a thing he calls radical self inquiry. To become the leader that we were meant to be. He’s been an inspiration for me. And I can’t recommend this book enough. 

Mario Fachini [30:33]

I will make sure that gets in the show notes too. That sounds fascinating and it sounds like he’d be a great person to interview too. 

Scott Brown [30:40]

If you could get Jerry on this show, you will be amazed. He is a saint. 

Mario Fachini [30:45]

Well, I appreciate the recommendation on both. All right. Where can people learn more about you? 

Scott Brown [30:52]

I’d love it if people would come by to ScottBrown.co, as in Colorado. You can learn all about Clean Messaging there. And drop me a line, I’m happy to help. 

Mario Fachini [31:04]

Well, it has been an absolute pleasure, Scott. I’ve enjoyed this very much. And I know Expert Authority World has learned a lot. 

Scott Brown [31:11]

Mario, thank you. Thanks everybody. This has been so much fun. Happy to jump in. And I love the questions and the engagement here. This has been just great. 

Mario Fachini [31:20]

All right. Expert Authority World, we have another great episode. I’ll see you on tomorrow’s Have a great day. And God bless. 

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