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They say it’s best to be the one “selling shovels during a gold rush”. In the last 10 years, e-commerce sales have exploded
from $170 Billion per year to $1.2 Trillion, and every single dollar of that revenue runs through copywriting. Copywriting plays a pivotal role in virtually every lucrative online business model, and as a result, simply offering copywriting as a service has become today’s most reliable business model.

Jacob has discovered this firsthand over an 8 year career that started with selling his Jordans to pay rent and has resulted in
5 consecutive years of six-figure freelancing and the #1 Google search ranking for “copywriter”. He’s used his copywriting earnings to bankroll other businesses, including a $40k/month content agency and a $20k/month education company that has helped thousands of new freelance writers build successful copywriting businesses of their own.

With entire industries going under and millions of people out of jobs they never liked in the first place, Jacob’s on a mission
to help aspiring entrepreneurs discover the pandemic proof skill of copywriting and learn how to trade in their freelance side hustle games for a real, reliable business model.

What Expert Authority World™ is saying about the show:

  • Actionable and Inspiring
    October 29, 2021 by Ben_Cook28 from United States

    I appreciate the authenticity, quality of the guests, and insights from this podcast

  • Essential content for your entrepreneurial journey
    October 17, 2021 by MCarmen Baldovi from United Kingdom

    Mario’s interviews are full of valuable tips from business experts that you shouldn’t miss in your entrepreneurial journey. Listening to this podcast is being a massive help for me and I hope it is for you.

  • Wealth of Information
    October 8, 2021 by KPM D. from United States

    Great interviews. Always great to have the opportunity to hear from experts in their fields and glean from their years of wisdom. Keep up the good work!

  • Packed with actionable content!
    October 8, 2021 by mwforrester from United States

    Mario has a top-notch podcast with outstanding guests! I’m able to come away with information that I can apply to my own business, to generate growth and increase my ability to provide positive impact. When you spend your time to listen to an episode of EA Effect you can be sure that you will get an amazing return on time investment.

  • Powerful!
    September 3, 2021 by MichaelUnbroken from United States

    This is the show I needed 13 years ago before I ruined my first business. I think being able to have tangible and practical insight from people who are one step ahead of you is everything congrats to Mario for an amazing show! - @MichaelUnbroken

  • First Rate Host and Brilliant Guests
    September 3, 2021 by Wade Galt from United States

    Mario is an extremely well prepared and professional host that gets the best out of his guests. He interviews fundamentally sound guests to share powerful business strategies and wisdom. Definitely worth your time to listen.

  • Great show.
    August 28, 2021 by mdaciuk from Canada

    Excellent interviews and guests. Liked the show on how to defend your reputation. “Customers, communities and critics.” Good way at looking at stakeholders. Thanks for the great content.

  • Great topics - and tips!
    August 27, 2021 by Kate | EOFire from United States

    Loving Mario’s podcast! Not only does he hit so many great topics, but his episodes are filled with tips and strategies you can actually use right now. For example, I just listened to his episode about Podmatch with Alex SanFilippo, and Mario doesn’t just read off a list of questions and move through the interview robotically - he actually has a conversation, and shares his own experiences with the power of guest podcasting and why others should be doing this to grow their own audience. Thank you, Mario! Keep up the heat!

  • So glad I found this podcast!
    August 13, 2021 by Nate804 from United States

    I’m so excited to continue jumping into episodes of this podcast. So much knowledge from so many successful business men & women. Adding this to my weekly workflow for sure!

  • So much information
    July 23, 2021 by abal31 from United States

    Such a great show. So much information and helps with many areas of our business.

  • 0285: Sales Driven Agency: Helping Founders Become Predictable, Sustainable and Scalable
    June 28, 2021 by Mary2577 from Philippines

    Thank you so much and keep on doing more great show.

  • Easily One of My Favorites
    May 7, 2021 by ScottDGray from United States

    I recently discovered Expert Authority Effect. It’s quickly worked it’s way onto my list of must listen podcasts. The episodes are less than an hour and packed with great information from top-level entrepreneurs.

  • Priceless Content!
    May 7, 2021 by megan@podcastingyou from United States

    Mario does such a good job covering a variety of topics. His guests offer awesome advice as well. I would recommend this show to anyone looking to learn more about entrepreneurship!

  • Very helpful
    May 7, 2021 by Luke and Susie from Australia

    As a business owner I love being challenged to see things a different way and be reminded of how to do thing better. This podcast has been so helpful to do that.

  • Great Show
    May 6, 2021 by emj-js from United States

    Mario does an excellent job being fun an entertaining while asking insightful questions to draw out the experise of his guests. Thoughtful, helpful conversations to make work and life better. Thanks!

  • Smart Ways to Gift
    April 26, 2021 by Michelle Kaplan from United States

    I learned some key things during Mario's interview with Chelsea Martin on gifting. What stands out is how impactful direct mail really is and how important a customized presentation of your products not only creates happy customers, but also a great referral source. Thank you!

  • Heart Centered Success
    April 18, 2021 by Macnjacs from United States

    Your interview with Brandon Fong was great. I appreciated the fact you started with the 3 steps, it was so valuable it really made me want to hear more. Thanks!

  • Love this show!
    March 12, 2021 by Gisele_Oliveira from United States

    This is so far my favorite podcast. It’s been my weekly dose of motivation and inspiration. Keep up the great work, Mario !

  • So much value!
    March 7, 2021 by Loose Seeds from United States

    The conversation with James, Sana and John Lee Dumas was awesome. Unique questions were asked by the hosts and JLD responded with gems that I stick right into my pocket. Thanks for this valuable info on how to up my podcasting game guys!

  • Always Enjoy Mario's Interviews!
    March 5, 2021 by HarloB from United States

    I really enjoy Mario and his shows. The Stress and Anger in the Workplace episode was great because it cut to the chase of all the issues around this topic. Great interview!

  • Great Podcast
    March 5, 2021 by 11Dreamer11 from United States

    Really interesting interviews that are really well done! Great listen and great for inspiration.

  • Innovative
    February 22, 2021 by Michelle Kaplan from United States

    I love Mario's energy! It captures my attention throughout his podcasts. Listenng to him and his guests, their ideas, actions, and accomplishments makes me brainstorm what's next for my business. Relevant and fresh!

  • Inspiriation 7 Days A Week!
    February 19, 2021 by ST Rappaport | LifePix from United States

    Mario doesn't miss a day. No matter what is going on, there's an episode relase. Mario is on a mission and nothing is going to stop him. He's a real model to be doing these interviews!

  • An Expert on Experts!
    February 12, 2021 by Powerful Eric from United States

    Love this show! Mario's show is a asset to podcasting. Thanks for helping others Mario!

  • Now I know
    January 22, 2021 by Margo Lovett from United States

    Mario, I see how active and generous you are in Podcast Paradise. Today, I listened to a few of your shows - episodes 1 & 59. Episode 1 brought me into the moment of prayer. You produced a show according to the Spirit. Now I know why you are so generous, able to operate from your seat of genius. Margo Lovett

  • Keeping the Books
    January 15, 2021 by E-World from United States

    Great interview with Judith keeping Net Profits as key thing to look at. Interesting point she made some owners make 30 millions but not enough Net to take a paycheck.

  • Excellent podcast
    January 12, 2021 by Atomickitten99 from United States

    I’m enjoying the guest interviews. They are packed full of great nuggets! Thank you.

  • Unique - Engaging - Bold
    January 2, 2021 by Paul D Johnson from United States

    As host of interveiw based The God Zone Show podcast I fournd Mario's show uniquely valuable in providing inpriation and engouragment for my work.

  • Fun, insightful, and quality production
    December 23, 2020 by koltrass from United States

    Mario brings in top-notch guests for engaging conversations on a variety of topics. Moreover, his attention to technical (e.g. audio, editing) quality is obvious and makes a difference. Listen to be entertained and enlightened!

  • Inspiring interviews to take the next step!
    December 12, 2020 by BillableWithBaby from United States

    Inspiring interviews with interesting entrepreneurs inform and motivate you to take things to the next level. Always good things to learn and implement. Thank you Mario!

  • Pure value, I love it
    December 4, 2020 by Jdoggg222 from United States

    Mario has a way of asking the questions I am wondering as the guest is speaking. He seems to intentionally ask the questions that most benefit you as a listener. Great podcast!

  • Loved the Craig Handley Episode
    November 13, 2020 by MHillfan from United States

    Mario’s energy is infectious and Craig Handley is a character and some. But really every episode brings out the uniqueness of each guest. This pod has become one of my must listens›

  • Inspiring. Informative.
    November 6, 2020 by SunDevil from United States

    Mario is incredibly inspiring and does something few other podcast hosts can manage to do… allow his guests to actuall talk at length and answer his questions. He offers great information and I really appreciate that he is invested in what his guests have to offer as well. Other podcasts come across as an ego stroke for the host, but this podcast is truly here to help guests share their stories as well to the benefit of the listener. Worth subscribing.

  • Game changer
    October 30, 2020 by Player's Handbook from United States

    This podcast is informative and inspiring. I love it!

  • If you are a wanna be entrepreneur look no further!
    October 23, 2020 by Elisa Di Napoli from United Kingdom

    Great podcast full of interesting insights. The host is engaging and thoughtful and I can say I have enjoyed listening to each episode!

  • Amazing Interviews not to miss!!!
    October 16, 2020 by Jbower1282 from United States

    Consistantly uniques interviews or amazing people really making it happen.

  • Mario is a great host with great questions!
    October 16, 2020 by alexdesigns from United States

    Take a few minutes out of your day to listen to Mario. He is a super smart guy and I love the questions he asks his guests.

  • A great podcast for dreamers and do-ers!
    October 16, 2020 by Chiquita2727 from United States

    Lots of great information and inspiration for anyone who wants to turn dreams into reality. Mario brings a lot of spot-on information to this podcast.

  • Great Show
    October 9, 2020 by Palminchen from London from United Kingdom

    Love the broad selection of topics for inner

  • Amazing inspirational stories
    October 9, 2020 by Nicholas Lee 18 from United Kingdom

    This podcast is so good. The stories from the people sharing their stories about their struggles in life and how they overcame these struggles is just inspirational and helped me push harder when things get tough. Keep up the good work with these amazing interviews Mario.

  • Fantastic
    October 9, 2020 by sttoggyigctdrvy from United States

    Mario goes above & beyond on his show. Lots of great information for his listeners!

  • Top Learning
    October 2, 2020 by BLNT PPTT from Hungary

    Love hearing these great interviews with a great host. Keep up the good work!

  • Mario inspires!
    September 18, 2020 by CHRISTOPH - HABITFREAK from United States

    These interviews are fantastic. Mario inspires with great questions that draw out great answers from his guests!

  • Expert authority!
    September 18, 2020 by Tara Williams Phone from United States

    Mario shares some amazing people on this podcast and they have some gold to share!

  • Great show!
    September 10, 2020 by Karen @ Interview Valet from United States

    Mario is an awesome podcast host! I love the FB Live interviews and the opportunity for listeners to engage in real time. The audio and video quality is spot on every time. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss anything! You won't be sorry.

  • A Podcasters Inspiration!
    August 14, 2020 by JamieKullman from United States

    Mario has so much insight and delivers such incredible value through his show. I just started listening, but I've already learned so much from him and his wonderful interviews. Keep up the awesome work!!

  • Quality professionalism
    August 6, 2020 by VirtForce from United States

    I can’t say enough about how pristine and professional Mario is in his interviews. He truly wants his guests to have the best experience and recording possible. And not to mention he is fun and knows how to put people at ease in front of the camera.

  • How to conquer your limiting beliefs
    July 31, 2020 by Dave4syth from United States

    Listen to episode 103 an dlearn how to overcome your limiting beliefs. Great advice.

  • I can’t believe how much I learned in just one episode
    July 29, 2020 by AwesomeMontana from United States

    Mario is knowledgeable, curious and able to bring great guests that deliver value that every business needs to understand! Outstanding podcast!

  • Great content!
    July 15, 2020 by Cory Lee Leadership from United States

    Mario does a great job of providing relevant information and bringing on guests to share their expertise in a variety of fields. Highly recommend his podcast!

  • Fascinating interviews
    July 10, 2020 by Bill Ringle from United States

    Mario brings on accomplished guests and draws out their expertise and stories in a way that leaves me on the edge of my seat. Keep up the great work, Mario!

  • Love It!
    June 26, 2020 by Laura Moreno Cabanillas from India

    Loving this podcasts, an entrepreneur I really appreciate the energy and passion being shared to help us grow our business. Keep up the great work.

  • Boost my Amazon sales!
    June 19, 2020 by SurvivalDad from United States

    I tap Amazon as one of my sales channels and your interview with John Ghiorso was an eye-opener. Ignore at your own peril!

  • Love It!
    June 16, 2020 by LauraMore from United States

    I loved the Memorial Day episode, Mario! Thanks so much for creating this awesome podcast!

  • Flawless interview style
    May 29, 2020 by GninraeL14 from United States

    Mario makes everyone appear even more interesting to me. Great format and style!

  • Come here for value
    May 29, 2020 by Joshua User 202! from Canada

    Really appreciated this podcast for the raw, genuine interviews. Love it!

  • Crisp and interesting interviews
    May 22, 2020 by Joel Goobich from United States

    As someone who created one of the first podcasts dedicated to video marketing, I was very impressed by your recent episode about using video. Your interview style is crisp and interesting

  • If you are in business, this podcast needs to be on your playlist.
    May 22, 2020 by Macstephen1 from United States

    Mario has a great conversational style that helps his guests shine. This show is a must if you have an entrepreneurial spirit. It provides thought provoking content that will help any businessperson in their quest for success.

  • New Subscriber here and on your YouTube Channel
    May 15, 2020 by Angela Brown Oberer from United States

    Wow Mario you have a real knack for interviewing. You ask great questions and have a fun way of keeping the conversations lively and interesting. After listening to your episode with Owen Video I subscribed to your podcast and then I hunted you down on YouTube. High Five and great job!

  • Very Professional & Engaging Show!
    May 15, 2020 by Mitche Graf from United States

    Mario is extremely engaging and can hold your attention, and is a great interviewer! He has some great guests that really get into the details of running a successful business. Keep up the great work Mario!

  • Great Content
    May 10, 2020 by Pilar S. from United States

    Excellent! LOTS of advice from experts. The most recent episode talks about speaking–a must-listen for anyone who presents or is thinking about presenting.

  • Great content!
    May 1, 2020 by @Mentally_Strong from United States

    I really enjoy your podcast each time I listen. The content helps any entreprenur level up with they do. Keep it up and thanks for each episode.

  • Professional and Informative
    May 1, 2020 by Bruce at Mindfulness Mode from Canada

    Mario Fachini is an excellent interviewer and has terrific guests on the show. I highly recommend this podcast.

  • Great Podcast
    May 1, 2020 by Amber Fuhriman from United States

    I love the topic of this podcast. The episode with Tod Lindsay is super super helpful!!

  • Great find!
    May 1, 2020 by Reed Stiles from United States

    Great message and content. Stumbled upon this due to the cool logo, stayed for the content.

  • Great show and great host!
    May 1, 2020 by Laurapowers44 from United States

    Love what Mario offers! So glad he is doing his show and providing all this helpful info! Keep them coming!

  • Walks the walk
    May 1, 2020 by Me15463 from United States

    Mario encapsulates everything he talks about on the show. Be sure to tune in to this!

  • Honest and authentic
    April 17, 2020 by Deano3622 from United Kingdom

    Wow, just come across this podcast. Mario is such an awesome guy. He comes across so honest and genuine. Loved the content. I honestly don’t know where you find the time?! Keep it up Mario, love how honest and real you are!

  • Great and insightful!
    March 7, 2020 by Karty12345 from Australia

    I really enjoyed this podcast, so much relevant content. Thank you!

  • So much Value..!
    February 28, 2020 by Alex Dali Rizo from United States

    Great content, I really recommend this to any Entrepreneur looking to excel in their path, Mario brings topic experts to teach and inspire your day

  • Inspirational Intentional Information
    February 28, 2020 by 10Kforte from United States

    This podcast shares the stories from people that are doing whatever it takes to rise up and help others along the way. “What Are You Made Of” is one of the many messages shared on the podcast. There are so many takeaways that are applicable to anyone. I really enjoyed listening.

  • Wow!
    February 25, 2020 by Tyscoaching from Australia

    Just listened to the 'rescue site AED Program' episode! If you love epic stories and inspirational people, this is the podcast for you!

  • Motivation on Tap
    February 7, 2020 by AnthonyPGarcia from United States

    Mario brings on some of the most impactful entrepreneurs to hear from. He dives into the key performance factors of their business. He extracts information very well and keeps the show flowing very smoothly. Definitely a show to subscribe to!

  • Starting a Movement
    February 7, 2020 by JustMe2say from United States

    There are many areas of business and entrepreneurs have an opporunity to gain some insight with this podcast. Excellent interviews!

  • Great Podcast For Entrepreneurs!
    February 7, 2020 by The Big Game Hunter from United States

    Full of knowledgeable guests and useful information that will help you accomplish your goals in business and in life!

  • Mario Truly Care About His Guests
    February 7, 2020 by Podcast Junkies from United States

    Having met Mario and spent time with him at Podfest I can truly say that he is passionate about his show. He’s genuine and that clearly comes through in his own story and what he brings to every interview.

  • Put your thinking cap on!
    January 27, 2020 by Cliff Duvernois from United States

    This is probably one of the most information dense podcasts I’ve listened to in many moons. Each episode could easily be expanded out into 2 or 3 hours. Mario does a great job of asking the right questions to get his guests to reveal great tips, tricks and advice. Sure a lot of information can be applied to an entrepreneur but I found a lot of advice applicable to my personal life. This podcast is definitely worth my time to listen to and I’m looking forward to more episodes to come. Great job!

  • Relavant for anyone!
    January 17, 2020 by HarloB from United States

    I really enjoy Mario and his shows. The Stress and Anger in the Workplace episode was great because it cut to the chase of all the issues around this topic. Great interview!

  • Mario nails it!
    January 17, 2020 by Mickiezada from United States

    I've listened to Mario for a long time...his podcast is well produced, his guests are influencers and authentic authority, and chock full of insights and inspiration for entrepreneurs. Love it!

  • Mario is the real deal
    January 9, 2020 by jamesnewcomb.io from United States

    I’ve known Mario personally and professionally for over a year now. He is genuinely interested in helping people succeed, and consistently over delivers in his interactions and valuable advice with fellow entrepreneurs, podcasters, what have you.In this era of showmen who “give value” only if they think they’ll get something in return, Mario stands out as a man among men. Listen to his show and learn what true leadership and value in the marketplace mean.

  • Listening On My Entrepreneurial Journey
    January 3, 2020 by FromLisa2 from United States

    I was surprised when I stumbled over the servant leadership that shows up in these episodes. It's collaborative. It's focused on relationships with clients versus transactions. I especially enjoyed the episode on getting clients without "selling" because it's more about genuine relationship building.

  • A Gift
    December 25, 2019 by Lisa Vogt from United States

    Mario uses all his talents, gifts and abilities to produce this life affirming show. It's incredible that we are able to grow our abilities and develop our talents and gifts just through subscribing and listening. Thank you Mario!

  • This show is ON FIRE!
    December 14, 2019 by tibor.mindsethorizon from United States

    Love your show Mario! Your niche is close to mine but I focus more on mindset and manifestation in a business setting. I tuned into episode #103 with Karen Brown which is dope! Keep up the great work!

  • Entrepreneur Must Listen
    November 30, 2019 by HWoodwriter from United States

    If you’re an entrepreneur this is a must listen show. So many inside tips and thought processes behind moving your business forward. Mario does a great job with the guests by asking the right questions at the right time. He and his guests give the information you need to grow your business and leadership skills.

  • What a show!!
    October 26, 2019 by CWLuecke from United States

    Man, do I love interviews with world-changers! Mario does an excellent job gathering the cream of the crop for his show and giving insightful interviews. Check it out!

  • Loved it!
    October 25, 2019 by Seodrigo from United States

    This interview was very enjoyable. Mario brought on a wise guest by the name of Michael Lauria. I loved the interview and Michael's perspective on the topic. He had wonderful insights and around min 31, he hit something very profound. Excited to share what I learned today with others. Way to go!

  • Great listen
    October 25, 2019 by trinity3712 from United States

    Good listen. Great range of guests and topics. Something here is you keep listening will help you in many areas of life and leadership b

  • Great Knowledge!
    October 18, 2019 by Jon Vroman FRD from United States

    Great show Mario! So much valuable information in one episode!

  • Excellent show, very imformative!
    October 5, 2019 by Shaolin Soprano from United States

    Mario loving the podcast bro, great content, immense value. Enjoying these interviews!!!

  • Helpful Information!
    October 4, 2019 by The Medicare Nation from United States

    Love the valuable information on these episodes! Lots of tips & tricks for every Entrepreneur to use. Kudos Mario!Diane Daniels Host of Medicare Nation

  • Love Mario’s Attitude
    September 12, 2019 by marisaimon from United States

    Mario’s heart shines through his interviews, making these fun and positive, and the people he brings on offer such a wealth of knowledge.

  • Lots of Great Info!
    September 6, 2019 by DarlajPowell from United States

    Mario provides lots of great info and advice in this 7 day a week show.

  • Great Content!
    August 31, 2019 by LanceJohnson_ from United States

    Mario does a great job of share valuable information that every entrepreneur could use and apply to their journey. Great work! 🙂

  • Important information!
    August 31, 2019 by Allmenow from United States

    Very engaging information. Mario draws out experiences and knowledge from his guests. Loved the show!

  • Difference-Maker
    August 21, 2019 by Unlimited Beliefs from United States

    Mario is a master at bringing out, shining a light on, and internalizing the difference-making mindset. His knowledge and experience and mission enable him to synthesize information into diamonds for all of us! What you want is accessible by taking in this show!

  • Excellent Information
    August 21, 2019 by Stallion golf from United States

    Great advice and information with a wonderful blend of topics! Loved the episode with the british healthcare professional and the ideas shared on how to make the industry better.

  • Motivating and valuable information
    August 16, 2019 by Calvin Javier from United States

    Great insight on mindset from business leaders and entrepreneurs making things happen. Definitely worth your attention. Will be listening and learning more!

  • Good information
    August 2, 2019 by FIRE NATION! from United States

    Engaging interview with a british health pro, I was surprised to hear the similarties and the application she has for making healthcare better

  • Greatness
    August 2, 2019 by MiaSportFanatic from United States

    Have had the chance to listen to one show so far but man, we should be paying for this information. Lots of greatness. Thanks for the heart to serve.

  • Listen to the experts - and thrive!
    July 28, 2019 by The Marketing Book Podcast from United States

    There's a lot of advice out there these days but, sadly, a lot (and I mean a LOT) of is from people with little to no expertise. That's not the case with this gem of a show. Listen to what the experts say and profit from the experience!

  • Show is amazing!
    July 26, 2019 by BestMorningRoutineEver from United States

    I love learning about mindset and how to master my thoughts. This show provide the tools!

  • Great show!
    July 19, 2019 by Jefferson_79 from United States

    Great information for all businesses.

  • Good value!
    July 12, 2019 by Audrey purplele from United States

    Great information that applies to any business! I really felt he provided value for my time.

  • Interesting Topic
    July 6, 2019 by Real Estate Journeys Podcast from United States

    Interesting topic. Great interviews. Keep up the hard work!

  • Helpful Advice from Experts
    June 14, 2019 by ichuck2 from United States

    Mario talks to experts in a wide range of subject matters and asks good questions to pull out helpful advice.

  • What a great show!
    June 14, 2019 by Christopher List from United States

    Mario really brings out the best in his guests. The police dog trainer had such a great story. Can’t wait to hear more!

  • Great!!!
    June 11, 2019 by tommye w-c from United States

    Great podcast, awesome guests, incredible host!!!

  • Fun & informative
    June 11, 2019 by Saoirse Sky from United States

    Some people want something fun, others want something informative. This podcast gives you both!

  • Great show!
    June 10, 2019 by CJThomas6 from United States

    Very inspirational show! Appreciate the advice and thoughts shared by the host and his guests!

  • Great podcast
    June 10, 2019 by Rosie81200 from United States

    Great podcast! Love hearing about the guests’ journeys and what they learned from them.

  • Never Stop Learning!
    June 10, 2019 by Terri in Fairhope from United States

    Tune in to this great podcast and host! You're probably really good at what you do (top of your game...an Expert Authority), but there is always more to learn...streamline processes and gain more freedom in your life. It's not always about the bottom line. This one is worth a listen!

  • Amazing!
    June 10, 2019 by KatieHBrooks from United States

    If you're looking for inspiration, tune in to listen to Mario and his top notch guests. I find that I am always much more motivated after listening to an episode of Expert Authority Effect!

  • Wonderful show!
    June 10, 2019 by @IV-Heather Tieben from United States

    Mario is a great host & puts on a wonderful show. The quality of his interview guests and entire production is impeccable, I couldn't recommend Expert Authority Effect more!

  • You Will Not Be Disappointed!
    June 10, 2019 by Composer 1853 from United States

    Mario does such a great job of engaging his guests from several different disciplines.

  • The hardest working man in Podcasting
    June 7, 2019 by EOFire.com from United States

    Mario brings the HEAT with real energy and FIRE...don't miss the meteoric rise of this show!~ John Lee Dumas

  • Great interviews and guests!
    May 31, 2019 by Mel Good Karma from United States

    Thanks for hosting such great interview guests. Look forward to hearing more and kudos on so many a week and also videos!

  • Fantastic
    May 31, 2019 by Jason A. Duprat from United States

    Awesome podcast, going to be adding this one to my list. Interesting topics with great interviews, good sound quality.

  • Enjoying!
    May 31, 2019 by Slordan from United Kingdom

    Enjoy listening to Mario and how he opens up the conversations to ensure it’s as relevant to us as listeners!

  • Nice variety and interesting topics
    May 31, 2019 by emjgreen from United States

    Love the variety of topics presented here on this show. Looking forward to listening to more of Mario's show.

  • Great Content! Great Interviews!
    May 24, 2019 by No BS Mompreneur from United States

    Wow! Really enjoy listening to all these fabulous expert authorities!! Lots of valuable take aways that I can implement into my life. I will continue to listen and share with others!! A+++

  • A great addition to build authority and create an impact
    May 24, 2019 by Cloris Kylie from United States

    A great addition to build authority and create an impact. Also, a different twist on the topic. Engaging. 5 stars!

  • Filled with motivation and ideas
    May 20, 2019 by Thomas O'Grady, PhD from United States

    Mario does a great job interviewing and pulling the stories behind people's stories or success. Good pleasant listen. If you are in a journey of your own, these episodes will give some things to bring into your on life.

  • spartancv
    May 17, 2019 by spartancv from United States

    Great job following your passion, your purpose and creating this podcast to help serve others! Keep up the excellent work.

  • This podcast is the bomb
    May 10, 2019 by Posturedoc from United States

    Mario always crushed it, and this podcast is another example of his amazing insights and knowledge!! Great work.

  • Wow - love the video show.
    May 4, 2019 by Thehighenergygirl from United States

    Thank you for the encouragement and tips on how to succeed on video and the repurposing idea.

  • Motivating and Inspiring!
    May 4, 2019 by KatyJoyWells from United States

    Mario brings such enthusiasm to his shows and his content is fantastic. I’m always learning new things to implement or new ways to grow, thanks Mario!

  • What a great show!
    April 29, 2019 by Gene_HPLN from United States

    Awesome podcast! Mario brings great topic, great guests, and it is very easy to listen to. I definitely recommend for anybody interested in business success!

  • It's great
    April 10, 2019 by Ian Ryan from United States

    Just had a chance to check out your most recent episode appreciate the great insight!Great delivery from the host & can’t wait to dig into future content.

  • Love it!
    April 6, 2019 by Brendan @ Entrepreneurs&Coffee from United States

    I love that this interview podcast doesn't feature the same old folks that everybody has on their show. Keep it up, Mario!

  • Amazing!!!!
    March 15, 2019 by Lindsey Russo from United States

    This show is so impactful! Hearing from the experts and how they take authority in their space is so amazing. Looking forward to more episodes!

  • Learned what I didin't even know I needed
    March 15, 2019 by Camilla-Jean from United States

    Great info. I love the Q episode because I get just quic interst snippets that may get me thinking about where my business might go.

  • Fabulous Interviews!
    March 1, 2019 by Life&RelationshipCoach from United States

    Mario does a fantastic job interviewing really interesting and successful business people who explain how they got to where they are - tips you won't want to miss when your trying to grow your business! Keep up the great work Mario! Coach Riana Milne

  • A+ Show
    March 1, 2019 by Gisele_Oliveira from United States

    I love this show. It's so entertaining and I learn a lot from the interviews. I highly recommend this show if you want to level up his game as an authority.

  • Inspiration, transformation, success stories!
    February 23, 2019 by Chabo101 from United States

    The title of this review should just be enough but it is just more than that. Its life lessons, its listening to personal struggles and how they over came those struggles. Love to hear from people that change the world through their struggle and the lessons that i learn from them are just more than amazing. I love this.

  • Great interviews!
    February 22, 2019 by AlyciaDarby.com PodcastManager from United States

    These interviews are well done and his guests are prepared to give really specific insights and stratagies... great podcast, Mario!!

  • Inspiring story of courage
    February 16, 2019 by StrongHeart<3 from United States

    I love that she found gratitude in her circumstances. lorie is an inspiration

  • Powerful!
    February 15, 2019 by The Food Heals Podcast from United States

    Mario's interviews cover a variety of topics and provide great value in all areas of your life! Episode 15 discusses how change is temporary and transformation is permanent which was really powerful for me. I love this message! Thank you!

  • Great content!
    February 15, 2019 by Blakeob85 from United States

    Great answers to common questions many entrepreneurs have! Thanks Mario for sharing your and your guests' insight!

  • Real Actionable Tactics!
    February 9, 2019 by MattBMaverick from United States

    What I like about Mario's podcast is that he pulls out actionable tactics from his guests that we, the listeners, can actually use. Great show!

  • Great Listen!
    February 8, 2019 by Real Estate Investor from United States

    Mario and his guests provide useful techniques to succeed in any business venture. The interview style promotes learning through real life examples of his guests. Great listen!

  • Great interviews!
    February 8, 2019 by Matt B 1818 from United States

    Love hearing these interviews and learning from people who are top in their industry. Mario is a great host and is not afraid to share his emotion!

  • Love it
    February 1, 2019 by Duffash from United States

    I love hearing interviews of successful business women and taking away what I can learn from their journey. Mario is a great host! I have enjoyed what I have learned so far. Congrats on the launch of your new podcast!

  • Strong, professional, enthusiastic!
    February 1, 2019 by pm legs from Canada

    If you're looking for an interviewer who's going to take you to investigative places to help you be your best you, through your professional life, you'll love listening to Mario!

Watch The Episode

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Resources Mentioned

Books Mentioned

Made to Stick | Chip Heath and Dan Heath

People Mentioned

Ogilvy

Ramit Sethi

3+ Expert Authority Insights™ To Apply Now

  • Copywriting is the kind of fuel that drives online business
  • There is no way to perfectly predict based on even direct customer feedback, how that initial draft is going to perform.
  • Our concept of what writing is in school is so different from what it actually is in a business and a marketing context. 
  • And then at the end of the day, attention, desire and interest don’t mean anything if we can’t get the action.
  • If you can’t deliver a clear message, you’re never going to, no matter how valuable, what you’re doing is you’re never really going to be able to communicate that value.

Sponsors

• FREE Business Book Publishing Course Learn How to Publish Your Lead and Profit-Generating Business Book in < 8 Weeks visit: www.FREEBusinessBookPublishingCourse.com

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Wheel of Whatever™

[32:43] Who is a copywriter you would love to have dinner with and why?

What You’ll Learn In This Episode

Click the time stamp to jump directly to that point in the episode.

[0:04] Intro

[1:02] Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course

[1:30] Copywriting

  • Something that you read to get you to make that decision to purchase.
  • Fuel that drives the web.

[5:07] Upsides of copywriting

  • Hiring copywriters is way cheaper vs hiring a salesperson to talk with 50,000 people.
  • You’re typically looking for a range where the segmentation gives you a return on your investment.

[8:11] Why are others unsuccessful with one on one sales?

  • Product Market Fit has to be there – having some level of real connection between what they need and what you’re offering.

[11:26] Identifying core segment

  • Understanding target market
  • Don’t skip the one to one calls, the one to one conversations to really dig in.

[12:53] Sample size of people to do one on one

  • What budget can you afford?
  • Pair with broader set of more simple, easier, less expensive to get data

[15:27] It’s not important that we’re profitable on the first, you know, $100,000, when we’re talking about a 5 million spend, what we really care about is being profitable at the end of that spend.

[22:30] Where should someone start when they have never done copywriting?

  • Understanding copywriting framework
  • AIDA framework-  attention, interest, desire and action

[26:29] What are some ways you would say to intentionally repel?

  • Targeting – does need to be more specific,

[32:43] The Wheel of Whatever

  • Who is a copywriter you would love to have dinner with and why? Alive or not.

[34:44] Let’s Thank our Sponsor, Free Business Book Publishing Course

[36:30] The Imperfect Action Round

  • Giving your message delivering your message of value with clear words making it easy to understand.
  • Focusing on themselves focusing on some really vague overly broad presentation of value instead of being real clear, trying too hard to persuade, trying too hard to sell instead of just, you know, clearly addressing the challenges and the benefits and focusing there.
  • Consistency and your messaging and holding true to the vision that brought them there in the first place.

[37:56] Jacob’s Book Recommendation

[39:05] Sponsor, Free Business Book Publishing Course

[39:38] www.EAinterviews.com

Episode Transcript

Read Full Transcript


Jacob McMillen [0:00]
Hi, my name is Jacob McMillen from JacobMcMillen.com and you’re listening to EA Interviews.

Intro [0:04]
EA Interviews Episode 243 inspiration, transformation success stories and the imperfect action round seven days a week. Join Mario Fachini for today’s Expert Authority Effect Interview.

Mario Fachini [0:18]
I’m gonna lose my mind. Why isn’t this going on? We’ve been putting so much money into this and nothing’s working. Maybe we should go to this newspaper. Maybe we should do that. Have you ever seen people do that or heard that or you just run an ad campaign or you run a Facebook click campaign or some sort of ad campaign that you saw was the newest, latest and greatest hiding and trending, whatever the heck? And it didn’t work? Well. I’m gonna tell you the answer to that right now. It’s called copywriting and your messaging is probably jacked up. That’s why I’m excited to have Jacob McMillen on the show. Today, we’re gonna dive into copywriting and the importance of it. I’m gonna bring them back right after we thank our sponsor.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [1:02]
Every business needs a book, including yours, visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that’s freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com.

Mario Fachini [1:17]
Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Jacob McMillen. Jacob, how are you feeling today?

Jacob McMillen [1:22]
Doing great. How about you?

Mario Fachini [1:23]
I am excited to dive into copywriting because I know the importance of it. I don’t think most people do. And I want to know what you take on it?

Jacob McMillen [1:33]
Yeah, I mean, copywriting is kind of the fuel that drives online business. You know, it’s a bet if you think of the last 20 products that you bought online, at some point during that process, you read, you read some words, you read some, you know, a page, something that you read to get you to make that decision to purchase. And so it drives everything, things that we think about things that we don’t think about, it’s kind of the fuel that drives the web.

Mario Fachini [2:03]
But how important is the message? I mean, wouldn’t it be smarter to just, maybe run the same campaign on LinkedIn as we’re doing on Facebook?

Jacob McMillen [2:13]
Yeah, so I mean, copywriting at its core is all about communicating a specific message, a specific offer to each audience that you’re in front of. So every different platform, every different campaign, the wording that you’re using, the messaging needs to be a little bit different, it needs to be targeted and focused at, you know, the specific people that you’re, you’re talking to, it’s kind of like, it’s like asynchronous sales, instead of having a one to one conversation, you’re anticipating, what the person that you’re speaking to through the stream is going to be thinking and wherever, wherever you are online, wherever you’re talking, that person is going to be a little bit different. And going to need a little bit different messaging.

Mario Fachini [2:54]
But Jacob, that sounds like a lot of work, I just want to copy and paste the thing, because, you know, we already got the graphics done. We already paid the web designer, and why do we have to change all the messages?

Jacob McMillen [3:07]
Yeah, I mean, it is a lot of work. And it’s one of the reasons that copywriting is such a high demand skill, such a high demand service these days, because you know, there’s hundreds of places online that you have people that you need to speak to, and as I said, they kind of all require slightly different messaging. And we think about something like, Tiktok that’s been blown up over the last few years, five years ago, no one even knew what that was. And here it is a new platform that has new messaging requirements, and it absolutely is a lot of work.

Mario Fachini [3:38]
Well, I’m, I don’t know if I’m done teasing you just yet about it. But that is the honest to God’s truth and I wanted to play devil’s advocate, because so many people have the attitude, I’ll raise my hand first. Because the reality is, we did pay the designers, we did pay the web designers, we paid the graphics, can we just copy and paste this and be done with it? And the answer is no. But what would you say to someone who has the attitude and is wrong? To say, let’s dive into the benefits of it? Okay, it’s going to be a lot of work. It might it’s probably going to be an extra investment you didn’t account for, but what are the upsides of it? Take us through that?

Jacob McMillen [4:19]
Yeah, I mean, if you think about the most successful way to sell someone, or to make a sell, it’s to sit down with someone one on one, and go through the process of talking to them, finding out what their unique needs are, what the you know, the problems that they’re trying to solve and then connect the solution of your product or service to their unique problems. And obviously for a lot of businesses in terms of the sales they’re doing, they’re wanting to scale past the requirements of one to one. If you think about if you need to have an actual live salesperson, what you need to pay them To have a one to one conversation with everyone, some business models do that. But for a lot of us, that’s way too much of an expense. So hiring a copywriter to come in and basically try to emulate that process to 500 people to 1000 people to 50,000 people, that’s drastically cheaper than having a set paying for a salesperson to go through and talk with 50,000 people. So I mean, at the end of the day, it’s sort of a, it’s a discussion of, of scale. And, you know, it absolutely can be a large cost. But I mean, when we think about it, it’s kind of about finding that balance between how granular how granular you want to be with your message, and the benefits that come from that. And you’re typically looking for, you know, a range where the segmentation gives you a return on your investment.

Mario Fachini [5:53]
I want to ask you why do you feel it’s so powerful to have that one on one, versus just throwing some mud against the wall or putting some random stuff on wherever the heck?

Jacob McMillen [6:14]
Yeah, it’s kind of wild. I mean, because I did before I got into copywriting, I was in direct one to one sales. And what’s so crazy is when you take the time to listen to someone, explain the unique challenges that they’re facing, it’s really easy to sell them, because you can basically just repeat back to them exactly what they said to you. And they’re going to be really excited about the solution. They say that they need ABC and you say, hey, I’m going to give you ABC, and here’s how I’m going to do it. And it’s just a very high rate of sales. When I when I did one sales at a 40% conversion rate, which is just, you know, that’s, that’s like for every, what three people I’m sitting down with, you know, more than two, on average are purchasing, because they basically will sell themselves, you just listen to them tell you what they need, and then say, hey, here’s how I’m going to give that to you. And so that’s why it’s so powerful is because they’re, they’re sort of selling themselves by excellent explaining exactly what they need. And so you kind of want to, when you get into copywriting, we’re trying to pull as much of that process out into the copywriting and anticipating, hey, for this group of people, they’re all going to have fairly similar needs, they’re all going to have fairly similar challenges. And so you just sort of imagine that you’re sitting in the room with that person, one to one, and explaining how you’re going to help them.

Mario Fachini [7:37]
So I want to, are you open for a challenge? Yeah, sure. So, I know a lot of people that do one on one, and I’ve done it before in the past, and it’s nice, especially if you’re at a nice restaurant. But I’ve also seen a lot of people who are very unsuccessful with it. Now, I don’t disagree that if we’re sitting down one on one, it’s probably the easiest way to sell someone without a doubt, because of what you had said. But for the people who aren’t successful with it, why do you think they’re unsuccessful with it?

Jacob McMillen [8:11]
Yeah, so I mean, there’s two factors at play. Well first of all, Product Market Fit has to be there and generally speaking, you’re not going to out persuade, you know, some, you’re going to persuade someone into product market fit. So the first step is having some level of real connection between what they need and what you’re offering. But one of the biggest mistakes that people make both in sales and in copywriting is they come in looking to sell, they come in looking to pitch their product, and in their mind, it’s all about them, it’s all about what they’re doing. And that’s the absolute worst way to sell, because, as I mentioned before, you want to let them sell themselves, you want to let them really dig into the challenges that they’re facing. And then assuming that product market fit is there, it makes it really easy to just, you know, let them explain it. And then again, like, literally just repeat back to them what they said to you. And that’s the best sales pitch you’re ever gonna have. And so it’s just, it’s very inverse of how most people think when they think of sales. And so that’s kind of why a lot of people struggle with it is they can’t get, they can’t step away from that mentality of, I need to persuade you to do something versus I need to really understand what’s challenging you, and then just connect what I’m doing to, you know, the challenge that you’re facing.

Mario Fachini [9:33]
Should you pre qualify them?

Jacob McMillen [9:37]
I mean, to some extent, it kind of depends on the marketing campaign that you’re doing. Yhen we talk when we connect that to copywriting, for example, you know, you’re looking to get targeted traffic to the page that you’re doing your copywriting on, but kind of in that vein, you’re going to be writing copy to the people who are a good fit, not the people who aren’t aren’t a good fit. So sometimes it’s okay, if the wrong people are coming, and they’re not responding to it, that’s okay, because we’re looking for the right people to respond to it.

Mario Fachini [10:09]
So we’re going from one on one to, let’s say, one to 51 to 101 to 500, or 1000, when you can narrow that down, is there any limit you can’t scale it to?

Jacob McMillen [10:23]
I mean, I would say it just comes down to, you know, when you identify the core challenges that your product solves, and the core benefits that your product provides it really just comes down to how, how big of a group are experiencing any one of those challenges. So when we’re talking about certain products like, if you’re selling a mattress, and you’re just looking to help people get a good night’s sleep, I mean your target market is anyone who can reasonably afford the price of matches you’re selling, it could be 10s of millions, hundreds of millions of people. Whereas if you’re talking about, you know, how to get more revenue from your e-commerce marketing funnel? Well, you know, the group of people who are having email marketing struggles for their e-commerce stores is drastically smaller. So it kind of just comes down to the size of the segment, you’ve identified, the core challenges core benefits with.

Mario Fachini [11:22]
How do you identify that core segment?

Jacob McMillen [11:26]
So there’s no shortcut. It’s just understanding your target market. And that’s where in the past, I’ve done when I’ve been wanting to do copywriting, for a larger audience, I still won’t skip the one to one calls, the one to one conversations to really dig in, and try to understand my target market, what they’re really experiencing, as a general rule, as a copywriter, any client I’m working with, they have a whole sales team that’s done or a customer service team, even that’s done one to one calls. And so we’re, we’re just looking to hear what the customers have already told us? And how can we incorporate that into what we’re saying back to the customers it’s basically that same process of the one to one conversation just extended over kind of a broader, more disjointed online experience that we’re trying to take from being broader and disjointed and make it real succinct, and really straightforward?

Mario Fachini [12:22]
What sample size do you need to work with the one on one? So if someone who doesn’t have a sales team or a large one, I should say if it’s like, a sales team of five to 25, versus a big company with hundreds? How many case studies, if you will? Or how many people do you think you should have? Are we talking about a sample of 50 100 500? Before you start seeing the patterns? To go, hey, here’s the top 10 things that people keep talking about?

Jacob McMillen [12:53]
Yeah, so I mean, it kind of comes down, it’s less about what is statistically the right answer and more about what can your budget afford? Because, you know, for a lot of budgets that people put into copywriting, they can’t afford to pay for the copywriter to sit down with 10 people, let alone 50. So it’s kind of like you want to kind of look for the pieces in a most efficient way possible, which is going to be like more survey type data more that type of feedback across a broad range, because you do, you do have to be careful of, you know, if you only if you only talk to five people, and that’s all you do, you might run into the physician where those five people what mattered to them isn’t representative, the whole group, so you kind of want to pair, you know, maybe a handful of one to one conversations that let you go deeper, with a broader set of more simple, easier, less expensive to get data. And so if you can combine those two things, that usually puts you in a good spot? And yeah, so I would say, if you can get 50 to 100 bits of replies from real people using your product or thinking about using your product, and then have a conversation with like five people that’s usually going to work for most people. And obviously, if you’re investing $100,000 into a funnel, and you’re planning to run 5 million and ad spend through it, you’re going to be a little bit more aggressive with that. But that’s not applicable most people,

Mario Fachini [14:20]
what would you say to someone who is in that situation where they’re going to put 5 million on the ad spend and have 100 grand for the funnel? What percentage do you think they should allocate to making sure there’s nothing wrong with it, and they have all the data because again, I know people in both of those situations, and I’ve seen both of them do really good and I’ve seen both of them do really bad?

Jacob McMillen [14:45]
Yeah. So when we talk about bigger budgets like that, what I’m essentially going to say is that the first draft is a guess. There is no way to perfectly predict based on even direct customer feedback, how that initial draft is going to perform. So what you want to do is you want to spend some time to give it your best shot on it but then you’re looking to iterate very quickly, what the benefit of all that ad spend is, we can very quickly run 10,000 people through a page, and then sit, figure out exactly where they’re responding how they’re engaging with that page and make adjustments, make an adjustment, run another 10,000, through make an adjustment, ultimately, it’s not important that we’re profitable on the first, $100,000, when we’re talking about a 5 million spend, what we really care about is being profitable at the end of that spend.

Mario Fachini [15:39]
When you’re talking about seeing how they interact with the page, you’re referring to, like the analytics, the heat maps, the click throughs, the pixels and all that stuff.

Jacob McMillen [15:47]
Exactly, the the more spend, we’re doing the the more granular we want to be with analyzing how people are engaging with every part of that page, because then it’s like, if we see that, hey, people are scrolling through the first third, and then we’re losing half our visitors on after a few seconds, then that means we need to do a lot of work on that first part of the page. Whereas if they are getting all the way down to the end, then just not converting that suggests another, another issue, maybe we’re not resonating with the challenges correctly, or we kind of pick the wrong benefits to focus on or we haven’t put enough, social proof or trust risk reversal into the copy. And so it just kind ofthe the more the more we can analyze, then it just allows us to more specifically tackle bottlenecks in the final.

Mario Fachini [16:37]
Expert Authority World. What we’re talking about here is the tracking on the page, the pixels, the analytics, there’s many other episodes of EA Interviews with SEO, specific funnels, conversions, all that it’s so voluminous, we’re not going to dive deeper into it here. But it’s so important because if your messaging isn’t right, they’re probably not even going to click, but if they once you do get them clicking, if you have no idea what they’re doing, or how they’re doing it, or how often you lose them also. So back to copywriting. How did you get into it?

Jacob McMillen [17:14]
Yeah, so I did, actually did door to door sales in college, to pay my way through school, good. I’m getting out. I got an accounting degree, the only thing I knew getting out of college was that I did not want to be an accountant. So I was like, okay, no,

Mario Fachini [17:31]
Why not?

Jacob McMillen [17:33]
Great investment. Right.

Mario Fachini [17:35]
Why would you want to be an accountant?

Jacob McMillen [17:39]
I think the big thing with accounting was I was looking at the career path, and I was like, my mentality was, I’m happy to hustle and put the time in during my 20s, even my 30s but by the time I get kind of up the ladder, I want to be able to scale back my work a bit, and let that hustle pay off for me. And when I looked at accounting, kind of particularly like a big four route where a lot of the you know, a lot of the money is, you know, the higher up you go, the more you work, the partners, they’re hustling more than the interns. So it’s like for a lot of senses, it was just kind of like yeah, I didn’t want to pick a career where I worked more the further I got. So I kind of discovered online marketing. I was like, hey, this is kind of the opposite. You put the hustle in to build some of these recurring revenue assets early and then, they work for you as you get older.

Mario Fachini [18:31]
Absolutely.

Jacob McMillen [18:34]
So I got into where I was. I first came into the online marketing world through SEO, and about a year into my journey there, I discovered copywriting and I was like, hey, this is everything I loved about direct sales minus everything I hated about direct sales. I was like this kind of feels like it’s for me I you know, I I had never been like a writing hobbyist when I was always a pretty decent writer and enjoyed the process of it. So it just felt like the right career for me and I dove in and you know, eight years later, here I am.

Mario Fachini [19:11]
Wow, congrats. I never wanted to be an accountant. But I failed English seven times. So writing was never, ever at the forefront of my mind until I did my first book. And then I’m like, okay, I see why this has been around 1000s of years. And the more and more I got into it, I actually enjoy writing now. And because for me, it’s delivering the message. This is another medium. And this is one of the things I teach with the expert authority effect. This is because you need to know your market in your message. But this is a medium, whether we’re an audio video, in person, out of person, whatever, I don’t even know. You know, I said years ago when we start using holograms for marketing, it doesn’t matter. You can still have cool new technology. And that’s why it’s kind of making fun of it at the beginning. Because, you know, I’ve heard it too, they’re like, you know, and I tell my author clients I go, we need to get your messaging succinct, because when they’re reading your book, when we publish your business book, that might be the only interaction with you, they get, you better make darn sure that it’s on point. So I’ve done a full 180 with the whole writing and everything. And I’ve also come to find copywriting it’s a lot of fun, because you can just look at stuff and it’s like, Cool funnel, sure you spent 10s of 1000s on that, and they see your ads and check the Facebook ads library. See, you’re doing a lot here. But you’re messaging trash.

Jacob McMillen [20:45]
I love that you brought that up, because going from failing English class to publishing multiple books, it’s like, the people, our concept of what writing is in school is so different from what it actually is in a business and a marketing context. Because it’s like, you’re sort of just like in an English class, the goal is all…

Mario Fachini [21:08]
You’re sleeping in English class as what you’re doing.

Jacob McMillen [21:12]
Yeah, exactly. And then you get into kind of the real world and writing in the real world is all about, like you said, all about communicating a message. And like accomplishing an objective, it’s very strategic. It’s not sort of vague what you’re trying to accomplish. It’s very specific. And so a lot of people who did not enjoy writing in school actually find their writing legs out in the business world. And it’s amazing.

Mario Fachini [21:38]
Yeah, and also say this to the difference of having to write an essay on what’s the diameter of under the chair, it’s like, who cares? versus, hey, let’s test this out for a week, we could go from a 5x profit to an 8x. Yeah, that might be worth 12 minutes.

Jacob McMillen [21:54]
Exactly.

Mario Fachini [21:55]
So I think we’ve made a strong enough case for people, they should be caring about copywriting. Couple more things, I want to ask you, if someone’s never, okay, if someone’s never done this in their life, where should they be starting? And I know, we talked about knowing your market in this, but what would you say is a tangible thing? Like, should they go to the website first? Should they go to something physical? Should they go to their books? Should they go to what if they’re authors, speakers, where’s one place that they can, where would you say is the easiest for them to see the biggest change right now?

Jacob McMillen [22:30]
I think probably framework, understanding a copywriting framework looking up, you know, established proven frameworks, just like when you learn sales, you learn to walk the prospect through an intentional set of ideas. And it’s the same with copywriting, understanding what we think about like, going back to English class, you look at a blank page and think I need to write something and it’s overwhelming, but if you have…

Mario Fachini [23:02]
Or draw something.

Jacob McMillen [23:04]
Or draw exactly, but if you come in, and you know exactly how I’m going to do this, then this, then this, then this, then it’s much simpler. It’s just about thinking, okay, what do I need to say in section one? What do I need to say in Section 2, 3, 4? So just kind of finding a copywriting framework and you can even Google a copywriting framework.

Mario Fachini [23:23]
What’s one of your favorite frameworks? And what’s the first step of it?

Jacob McMillen [23:28]
So I mean, when we talk about the ads example, earlier, we have the AIDA framework, a i d a, which is attention, interest, desire and action. And so essentially, there, we’re just thinking, hey, what’s, in this first bit, we need to say something that really grabs people’s attention, like typically not and, you know, in 2020 2021, we’re talking about Facebook ads, really, when you say paid ads, that’s kind of the flywheel for most businesses. So, when we talk about the data framework, we’re looking at, hey, we need to catch someone’s attention in a crowded noisy space right off the bat.

Mario Fachini [24:04]
And you’re talking about, like a headline.

Jacob McMillen [24:07]
Yeah, I mean, headline is a huge part of ADA, it could connect into like, the visual creative as well, or the first sentence or two, you see like he’s spent some time on LinkedIn, you see a lot of these posts where they like, intentionally leave a gap. So you have to click to like, open it up. So that he was about that curiosity hook in that first bit of the post, it’s kind of that same idea, you want to stop people with curiosity, with saying something outlandish, when whatever it is that gets them to stop. That’s what’s important, and then from there, you need to very quickly translate attention into genuine interest. And because they’re not, they’re not going to stay forever, just based on curiosity. So you have to, you know, you have to transition that into, having a core message that they’re interested in and that’s usually storytelling is usually how you do that, people are always interested in stories and then you know, In that story, you want to create desire for whatever the action is that you’re wanting to motivate, whatever the cell is to get them to get that click, you want to use the story to generate desire for what you’re talking about. And then at the end of the day, attention, desire and interest don’t mean anything if we can’t get the action. So at the end of the day, we’re looking for that direct action of the click through, the sign up purchase, whatever it is.

Mario Fachini [25:29]
And that is so important. Thank you for explaining that in detail. Because I find a lot of people see this and they hear it and everyone knows what a headline is. And if you don’t, you need to like to listen to every episode of the show. But you need to know what the headline is and go through this and we see it, we’re inundated with people all day and people, I’d say the biggest thing they have is they think it’s not working on Facebook, let me go to LinkedIn, let me go to YouTube. And they’re switching the medium, they never even look at the message over here. And they sure as heck don’t know their market. So to your point of, you got to get people to click, they also have to be the right person. So what are some ways you would say to intentionally repel and I know this might be weird for an expert authority world listening going? Okay, so you’re telling me to create an ad that gets people to click, and I’m going to spend money to get them rejected? Why is that so important?

Jacob McMillen [26:28]
Yeah, so I mean, there’s sort of two elements to that with ads, there’s the targeting, and then the messaging and so the targeting does need to be more specific, when we talk about the messaging, you can’t, you can’t really give a powerful message that resonates with a specific segment without, you know, in most cases, alienating other people, you know, if I’m, if I’m talking to 100 people, and what I’m saying is interesting to all 100 of them, if we’re just talking about Iraq, a random segment of people, it’s probably not going to be very powerful, very targeted at the person.

Mario Fachini [27:03]
It is not compelling at all.

Jacob McMillen [27:05]
Exactly. And so yeah, it’s less about looking to repel anyone and more about looking to make it so specific, that anyone who’s not your target market just would have no interest whatsoever, they just like, they’d look at it and be like, I can’t, I don’t want that, you know. So it’s kind of like if we’re talking about, say, you know, my audience, I want to talk to writers, like I help writers earn more. And so you know, if I’m delivering a message that’s general, about freelancing in general, to where someone who’s a designer, say, is interested in my message, I’m doing it wrong, you know, because even though there’s a lot of overlap, like I want to speak to writers specifically, I don’t have anything to offer designers. I’m not a designer, you know, even though they’re freelancers as well. And I talked to a lot of freelance writers. If my messaging appeals to designers, I’m screwing up, so I need to make it more targeted. And it’s kind of it’s a little bit counterintuitive, because a lot of people think, you know, I tend to think broad and tend to think I want to appeal to more people, but you don’t, you know, you want to appeal to this specific segment that you’re looking to help or sell to.

Mario Fachini [28:16]
That’s powerful. And I’m glad you touched on that. Because too many people are talking broad. If you’re talking to everyone you talk to no one.

Jacob McMillen [28:26]
Yeah.

Mario Fachini [28:27]
How do you get there? It’s a loaded question. But that’s why I’m having fun unpacking it with you. Once you tell us about some of your success stories, what’s the biggest transformation you’ve had from one of your clients?

Jacob McMillen [28:40]
Yeah, so one of the things that I’ve been most focused on over the last few years is content that brings in real customers, blog content, that’s not just offering value to people that is actually getting them to engage with the brand sign up, come through, and then sell on the back end through the funnel. And so my most recent client, you know, in about nine months, just through really targeted blog content that, like we said, was not appealing to any old person running a business, but in this case, appealing to people who are looking to do consulting specifically. And in nine months we were doing $415,000 net profit on a brand new website, brand new blog, just because again, we went targeted, we went in depth, and we kept it focused specifically on the readers. And then on one of my own businesses this last year, doing taking the same concept going, you know, going specifically to people who are writers and helping writers earn more, went from zero to 22,000 per month and 15 months, again, because I wasn’t speaking to everyone, speaking to those specific people really finding out doing the one on one call even when it wasn’t profitable to me to spend an hour talking with someone, but it was in the long term, really understanding what are they going through? What are the things that aren’t being solved for them, translated to being able to really resonate with that audience over the long term.

Mario Fachini [30:18]
Those are excellent case studies. And if anyone’s trying to do the math, that comes out to about 50 grand extra a month, which is not horrible for changing. Please don’t be insulted by changing a few words around and I know, it’s more complex than that. We just talked about that. But what I mean, it’s like that, essentially, that’s what it comes down to? Do we just increase profit tenfold? By changing some words around? So would you say, it’s worth doing?

Jacob McMillen [30:52]
Yes, absolutely. It’s kind of one of those things where, if you can’t deliver a clear message, you’re never going to, no matter how valuable, what you’re doing is you’re never really going to be able to communicate that value. And when it comes to writing, in particular, some people just really struggle to translate their thoughts into words. And if that’s you there’s a massive market of copywriters out there ready and willing to help you at a wide variety of price points just like there’s a, there’s a huge market that you can tap into. And if you’re on the boat, where it’s not a struggle, you can translate your thoughts into words pretty pretty well, then learning those frameworks, learning the techniques, to really make your message clear, to really focus on the right things in the right order. It’s absolutely going to increase your earnings and your business virtually overnight. And then as you get better and better over time even more.

Mario Fachini [31:52]
If that doesn’t excite you, then I don’t know what would, especially if you’re in business, so thank you for sharing that. We have the wheel of whatever. Now before we thank our sponsor, and come back for the imperfect action round, what’s the deal with this? What’s the question you’re going to get? You see it right there? No, because there’s nothing on there and make these up on the fly. That’s okay, spin. I still need to get the clicker. Working on it shows work in progress just like me. Okay, so here’s your question. Who is a copywriter you would love to have dinner with and why? alive or not? That’s a good one.

Jacob McMillen [32:44]
That’s a good one. Yeah. I mean..

Mario Fachini [32:48]
Aim to please.

Jacob McMillen [32:50]
The Godfather of copywriting is Ogilvy so I mean like, you got to say that, right…

Mario Fachini [32:57]
You don’t have to. I was kind of wondering if you were I had it down to two.

Jacob McMillen [33:02]
Someone else. Yeah, I mean, absolutely him. Thinking maybe, maybe someone more modern. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Ramit Sethi. But he’s the guy I fall for. I love his copy. He wouldn’t really refer to himself as a copywriter by trade. But I’ve always really appreciated his copy and the branding that he weaves into his copy. So it’d be fun to sit down and talk with him about business and copy and all that jazz.

Mario Fachini [33:38]
Well, the good news is he still lives so you can, yeah, and all I’m ever doing on the show is looking for honest answers. There’s no wrong ones. And it’s interesting, because there’s so many good copywriters out there, but certain ones focus on different avenues. And I tell people this all the time, just like with marketers, or just like with coaches, or just like with whatever, it’s like, there’s so many good people nowadays, find the one that you resonate with the most you might, you know, here’s 10 people, they’re all good. They’re all qualified, but maybe you just like their personality better? I’ve said it to my authors before, they’re like, why would anyone want a book on this? There’s 58 others. I go, Yeah, but they’re not from you and your perspective and your experience.

Jacob McMillen [34:24]
So true.

Mario Fachini [34:27]
I mean, I have many episodes where it’s similar topics, but the guests are night and day differences, so it’s like…

Jacob McMillen [34:36]
Absolutely.

Mario Fachini [34:37]
Choose the one you like the best. So thank you for the answer. We are going to thank the sponsor, and we’re going to come back to the imperfect action round.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [34:44]
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Mario Fachini [36:15]
And we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Jacob, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Jacob McMillen [36:21]
Let’s do it.

Mario Fachini [36:23]
The first question I have for you and these are 60 second or less answers is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Jacob McMillen [36:30]
Clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity, giving your message delivering your message of value with clear, clear words making it easy to understand.

Mario Fachini [36:42]
Very good. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Jacob McMillen [36:51]
The opposite of that. So basically focusing on themselves focusing on, you know, some really vague, overly broad presentation of value instead of being real clear, trying too hard to persuade, trying too hard to sell instead of just, you know, clearly addressing the challenges and the benefits and focusing there.

Mario Fachini [37:14]
Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Jacob McMillen [37:23]
Oh, so I think consistency and your messaging and holding true to the vision that brought them there in the first place. So often what they get to three months in is sort of disconnected from what brings them into the first place. So just staying consistent, staying on brand and value focused with your message through ongoing is what keeps people around.

Mario Fachini [37:48]
Very good. What are some books you’d recommend to the expert authority world that have made a difference in your life.

Jacob McMillen [37:56]
So I really like Made to Stick. It’s one of those books that kind of cuts through to the idea of messaging that actually stays with people, and just makes it really practical. It applies to copywriting, but applies to you know, business building and messaging in general. And so that’d be probably the number one.

Mario Fachini [38:20]
Excellent. Where would you like people to learn more?

Jacob McMillen [38:25]
If you go to my website, JacobMcmillen.com I have over 175,000 words of free content published, I do a weekly 10 minute podcast on Mondays where we talk about writing, marketing and freelancing. And then lots of some interesting free courses that you can get as well. So if you want to learn more, head there.

Mario Fachini [38:47]
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing. I got a lot out of it and had a lot of fun in the process. So thank you.

Jacob McMillen [38:54]
Thanks for having me. Mario’s blast.

Mario Fachini [38:57]
Alright, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

Sponsor – Free Business Book Publishing Course [39:05]
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www.EAInterviews.com [39:38]
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